James Cooper
Hello and welcome back to the podcast that's doing things a bit differently by providing an independent voice amidst all the noise to give you the inside track on what makes the business of elite sport tick. This is Sport, Structured. What sets us apart is the cutting-edge research has been carried out by Leonard Curtis providing validated sets of financial data plus professional commentary for major sports all in one place. Basically, it's all the facts and figures you need to know from the people who know what they're talking about. And backed by Leonard Curtis, who've more than 30 years of expertise in recovery and turning businesses around. Leonard Curtis were the first ever company to profile cricket in this country with their 2025 report. And now they've gone bigger and better with the 2026 edition. Alongside me to pick through the headlines and market leading data here in the UCFB broadcast studios in the heart of Media City are two former England captains and the man who's led the latest research. First off is a man who was born just down the road who went on to captain both Yorkshire and England hitting 18 international centuries in a career that amassed 82 tests and 86 ODIs. He led England to the ashes in 2025 and is responsible for the forward to the latest Leonard Curtis report. Lovely to have Michael Vaughn OBE with us. Alongside Michael is another former England skipper who also won the World Cup and was awarded for an MBE for his services to the sport and the leading role he's played in the growth of disability cricket. It's great to have Iain Nairn back with us. Iain also heads up Leonard Curtis's Northeast team. And finally, one of our regulars and the man who brings the data and research to life. It's an honor to have him with us again. He's the dean of UCFB. He's not an OBE and a leading academic when it comes to sports business. Professor Rob Wilson. So that's our small but perfectly formed team of big hitters. Time for the bouncers to start without a hint of spin. This is the Sport, Structured podcast with Leonard Curtis. Michael, it's lovely to have you here. Welcome uh to our lovely studios here at UCFB. Ian, welcome back uh Rob. Lovely to see you. Firstly, the report 2026. I said bigger and better. Give us some of the headlines there because it seems that the haves are are out dancing the have nots.
Prof Rob Wilson
Yeah, it's I guess the big finding is that financially it's what we saw last year. So you've got your Surreys that are top in the table there. What two and a half times the uh the performance uh index score of Leicestershire sitting at the at the bottom. Um still a significant amount of debt. Not really a huge amount of revenue growth across the game. Um and you said bigger and better. We've added some new stuff this year. So we've got England player pathway performance index. So we're looking at where the English talent is basically nurtured and developed before they go into the test team uh or into one of the other formats. Uh and then we've also added digital footprint. So who who in the test uh sorry who in the first class game is really generating digital activity because we know in the modern world that that digital activity tends to convert to pound shillings and pence, ticket sales, better sponsors, better broadcast, that type of thing. Um the fascinating finding with that just while I'm on it James is that uh Surrey have got 228,000 followers I think on uh Instagram that's the sum total of the bottom six teams in that same index. So you have these powerhouses in English county cricket now that are hugely dominant both on the wicket but also on the balance sheet as well.
James Cooper
The top six have all the big revenues, they have all the big wages, they also have all the big debts. Is the whole thing kind of sustainable together? How how does that work?
Prof Rob Wilson
Yeah. So, look, the ECB, uh, Iain mentioned it. Um, the ECB provide, uh, merit payments to clubs, uh, through their TV broadcast deal, which is linked to the England team. Um, that ECB grant has a proportion of revenue in those top teams like Surrey for instance, about 6 7 8%. When you look down at the bottom end of the table, you go to somewhere like Northants or Leicestershire, uh, that can be upwards of 65, 70, 75%. So depending on the situation you're in will depend on how much money you're being gifted by your central grant and how much money you're earning yourself as a as a going concern. Um that's problematic I think for the game at large because we really want to see organizations generating their own revenues. Um the ECB system actually is really nice and neat if you like for those uh non test match venues the uh non Hundred franchises and so on. Um, and then you mentioned the word debt there. I don't tend to worry too much about debt if it's repayable. It's what we always would teach students at UCFB. Actually, don't worry about debt. As long as you can pay your debts as they full due, you you're pretty okay. It's when you can't pay those debts as they full due that's a problem. So, that then takes us into, well, who owns the ground? Uh, do you are you able to leverage your own assets? um the top six clubs uh generate about or own if you like about 81% of the debt that is spread across first class count cricket. So that's not problematic for me in principle because those teams are then leveraging their assets to borrow that money but ultimately that's allowing them to grow even further. So take a Middlesex for instance play at Lords but don't own the ground don't benefit from the associated expenditure you can generate from that asset. So are going to be resigned to to not being able to grow certainly at the same rate of you know Surrey, Warwickshire or Lancashire.
James Cooper
Michael what do your instincts tell you about the state of county cricket? I asked the guys a couple of podcasts ago to to rank it between naught and 10. Naught is the dying man. Ten is superman. Where's county cricket?
Michael Vaughan
Um well I think it's always been uh the same kind of debate that you know county cricket is a bit of a struggle. Um, but I do look at the particularly the digital aspects of, you know, YouTube and the way that county cricket can promote itself via YouTube and potentially create a little bit of revenue from that uh exposure, eyeballs on the game. Um, there are some counties that are run brilliantly. There are some uh kind of wonderful stories around the county game. Um clearly the the test match venues are head and shoulders because of what they've got and what they get in terms of revenue from international games but there's clearly still an issue with a few at the bottom um that are in the same position that they've been for for quite a long period of time. So it's how does the game help the likes of Leicestershire and and Gloustersshire and and and Derby if you like. I know Derby have done quite well in times because they've built a few um you know a hotel or two around the ground and I guess I look at a lot of the counties I go around and obviously watch a bit now and um I do see a want and a and a real um kind of drive to make sure that these these these grounds and clubs become more sustainable. There's some wonderful models in cricket that have been I mean Surrey are the market leaders. Um you know you could argue that sur are very fortunate because of the position of the venue but you know it's all about maximizing what you've got and Surrey have maximized exactly what they have which is prime real estate and it's really an event space that has a bit of cricket on a few days per annum but they've maximized every ounce of what they have at Surrey and and that's all you ask really. You kind of you look at Leicestershire and go, have you maximized every ounce of what you have at Grace Road and would it be worth moving from Grace Road if you've not got the chance to maximize what you have there? They're the kind of conversations that I think all the game need to have. So we are helping the Leisters, we are helping Glousters to make sure that in 10, 15, 20 years time they're still uh still in active business.
James Cooper
Would you say the noises coming out of Yorkshire are just worrying or would you say that they make sense in terms of you know they've got their money back from from selling the franchise clearly but they're also talking about a 10-year plan to headingly does all that kind of
Michael Vaughan
Yeah and I get completely where they want to try and get to they they they hate the word privatization the members because demutilizing the members it's not easy but it needs to happen you know for Yorkshire to be sustainable moving forward and for that ground to be one of the best grounds in in the country uh for the training facilities to be up there with the best training facilities and you know potentially a partnership with Wheatwood and the university to uh grow grow Yorkshire cricket. Um you know the only way that can happen and the only way that Headingly can become an incredible venue is by having uh investment and the investment will only come if it's privatized and that's not saying the members won't still have their say. Um I I I know enough from those that are running the club that they will always give the members the say in Yorkshire County Cricket Club, but to to grow that ground and to grow the the brand of Yorkshire cricket and to make sure that it's up there with what a modern sports club should look like, uh they need outside investment.
James Cooper
How difficult is it squaring that circle in because you as Michael suggests the members want their voice? They're looking at demutralization at Yorkshire. They also at Middlesex as well. Is that just inevitable?
Iain Nairn
Yeah, I think it's about understanding what your business is. You know, what what's your reason for being? So, you might look at the the teams down at the lower end of the of the table and say, you are you really trying to win a league here? Because actually the the financial reward of winning the league is is negligible. So, you're you're actually there as a feeder to either bigger counties or or up to England. And for growing the game, it does that actually need you to be hugely profitable? It might just need you to be reaching break even every every year with your support knowing that your main source of revenue is is from the from the ECB and from the central funding and I think that you going on to the membership point you if members don't want to see Yorkshire succeed that you know that might be their right but ultimately the game in in England needs Yorkshire to be succeeding when Yorkshire is strong England is strong and and that you know that will change the game across the country
James Cooper
but you hint to that kind of concern and worry I seven of the counties rely on ECB handouts
Iain Nairn
but that's the way our game is funded, isn't it? You know, the the the image rights come in centrally that you know the the TV money that is then that is then divided up based on to a degree performance. You've got to hit the ECB your parameters to get your to get your money and it's you know it's a good system that does um hopefully see clubs collaborating as well. something that we mentioned last year that collaboration and sharing of ideas um to really see the strong clubs passing on you know their bit of knowledge to the clubs that that need some support.
James Cooper
Do you get that kind of knowledge exchange in in cricket because you don't you don't get it in football? Is is there more willingness to kind of share ideas, share good practice?
Michael Vaughan
I think so. I mean, I I've not been involved at at board level. So, but I'm pretty sure cricket is pretty good at passing on information and, you know, trying to create re new revenue streams away from the cricket. Um, you know, the smaller clubs are always going to be dependent on the ECB handout. That's the nature of the beast. But it's it can we help them just provide themselves with a few more revenue streams. You know, I thought you know Somerset where my my lad plays that they have number one again they've got it's a good position that the ground's in. It's right in the town center and I'm not degrading what happens in Taunton but there's not a lot there. So cricket is a prime kind of source of socializing for a lot of the community. So, it's in a great position, but it's away from the cricket that I see that they have so many um things that activate the ground, you know. So, you'll go down there on a on a monday and there'll be something happening at the ground. So, I think the CEO down there is doing a great job and um you know, a lot of these smaller clubs um I'm not saying that that Somerset is the benchmark, but you know, with their pathway program, they seem to doing it right. You know, with their uh membership, they seem to be activating that quite nicely. they seem to operate, you know, the odd concert or two down at the ground to bring in a little bit more revenue. Um, you know, and I'm sure other clubs are trying, but I think that they're they're probably the the market leader for the smaller clubs to try and follow, but I I keep going back to Surrey, it's great because of where it's at. And I think Somerset, they do have a a kind of a leg up because it's right in the heart of Taunton.
James Cooper
When you're looking for your son to develop as a cricketer though, are you also anxious that he doesn't play too much cricket? is that he's paying a lot more than you may maybe did when you were 18 or 19, isn't he?
Michael Vaughan
Should play every day. It's his job, isn't it?
James Cooper
Well, you learn more from playing than you do development.
Michael Vaughan
Look, when you're that age, he's only 20. Crickey you're not going to learn from sitting on a bench. Um, I'm not old school to suggest that you get better at playing cricket if you play. I mean, clearly, you got to look after your bodies and uh, you know, you need uh mental breathers because it's not an easy game. And you know, if you're thinking about cricket 24/7, it can drive you bonkers. It's just one of those sports that uh it can get you. So, yeah, of course, you need time out, but um I'm a big uh believer that young players get on playing cricket as much as they can.
James Cooper
Rob, was this set of figures frustrating in the sense you want to get to next year's figures and find out where the meat and drink is when it comes to the the hundred and and and how the money's being spent?
Prof Rob Wilson
Yeah, that's always the case, isn't it? because we're always looking back 12 months, what has happened and we're sort of picking up bits of information about what's going on currently so we can really start building the jigsaw. So fast forward 12 months, the Hundred money is going to come on stream a lot more quickly. We'll start to see the impact and how that accelerates the gap. I want to go back to question you asked Michael about the kind of collaboration within the game. Certainly those in inverted commas smaller counties are talking to each other. they are seeing that they can't control the revenues that are being on offered by those hundred franchises. They can't do a lot about being a test match venue because their infrastructure is simply not sufficient to deliver that. So they're talking about how can we be stronger collectively that will then promote cricket for our counties. How can we activate the ground? How can we uh bring concerts in? How can we collaborate with you know another sporting entity that might be in and around our venue? We were talking on the uh rugby podcast, weren't we, with Mark Evans about how um internal competition within a geographical area can really stifle the development. And if you're a rugby team playing in the northwest of England, you're going to really struggle to bring fans through the gate because they've got so many other options to to look at. Take Somerset and Taunton. There isn't a huge amount of other sporting pursuit. Um so so there's an opportunity there to really um activate and leverage that community. Um, couple that with the digital side of things which I think is really starting to come on stream for these counties now and that's how you start to generate those uplifts in revenue that on a percentage basis might be you know 50 60 70% uplift because you're starting from a very very small base. um but will make a material difference to the investment that can go into that county that can then improve their play player development systems, their pathways, their accessibility with local schools to spot our next talent and really graduate players uh up into you know the England setup because ultimately that's how cricket is set up and structured. the club game, the county game genuinely is built to feed a national setup and that's very different to what we see in you know sport like football.
Michael Vaughan
But I also look I mean there's some great stories about the the the lesser counters uh if I can call them that. You know you look at Leicestershire what they did last year to get promoted into the first division an incredible achievement. And what was that built on? It was built on really good coaching. It was built on signing players that had a point to prove. And you add into that one or two star quality players. Rehan Ahmed had a fantastic season. So there's one story from a club which was saying is at the bottom of the of the pyramid has managed to do some good stuff in the cricket. Look at Northampton. You put in a great coach like Darren Lehman. Look what he's doing with Northampton. So uh Glamorgan Richard Dawson goes in as a coach. So I do think the these smaller clubs if you get the right structure in place there are a lot of cricketers out there and that's not just in the UK but globally with the the overseas signings. If you're really smart and you grab one or two players that have got a point to prove from many of the big counties, you look at, you know, Surreys squad, it's got six or seven every week going, how are they not playing cricket? You know, they'd be getting in most other teams. There are a lot of players out there that if you've got a smart operating cricket department should be able to grab some of these play and there's a loan market as well. So, you can be very competitive on the pitch even though you probably haven't got the budget. You can be smart in your trades, you can be smart in your signings, you be clever with your overseas, you get them well coached, and you can really compete in this this county game.
James Cooper
What was your gut response to 520 million? Was it thank goodness or was it this this we've got to be careful with this?
Michael Vaughan
No, no, great. You know, absolutely the game needs that, but then it's right, okay, how we going to spend it and making sure that um you know, it's I don't see this opportunity coming again for cricket, you know. So it's really wise that you know the powers that be in the brains um and and I believe that's the model you know a county has to um provide a sustainable model to allow the ECB to uh draw them down that cash which is really good that that that's great um you know but it has to be spent wisely to protect the game for the next 10 20 30 40 years. This is cricket's moment. It's it's a great opportunity but as we've seen in other sports you know money's one thing it's how you spend it which is the most important.
James Cooper
Yeah, I think four of the counties already revealed they've paid off their debt and I think Somerset one of them. Um the balance sheet is going to look very different this time next year, isn't it?
Iain Nairn
Yeah, you know, paying down debt is a is a really good thing to do when you are struggling for cash. And certainly I know some of the big counties with a bit more debt on their balance sheet would like to be able to draw down the money from the Hundred to deal with that. It you can impact on cash flow. you you see quite a lot of the companies you running short at the at the end of the uh financial year for sure waiting for the next bit of England money to come in but it's that sustainability and viability of the of the business that's there there's no point in Glamorgan going off and running up another million pounds worth of debt and then going can we have some more please to the ECB you need to make sure that that underlying structure is is safe and sound but you certainly if you talk to some of the chief execs and ask them you know would getting rid of your debt payments make you a better stronger financial club the answer comes back wholeheartedly. Yes. And you know, for some of the counties, it's way more important that they get to do that than build a hotel. You know, that that's just not part of what they're going to
Michael Vaughan
So, you've got a nice hotel coming at Durham, aren't you?
Iain Nairn
Just about. Yeah.
Michael Vaughan
Looks like it's a bit posh for that area, doesn't it?
Iain Nairn
Well, no. Chester le Street.
Michael Vaughan
Is it Ben Stokes hotel, is it?
Iain Nairn
Well, it's going to pay his wages. Yeah. It's a way for the Aussies to stay because they won't stay in the castle.
Michael Vaughan
Oh, yeah. With the ghost. Yeah.
James Cooper
Okay, you got one of the lines of the year out of the man who runs the IPL in terms of what he thinks the hundred's going to be. La Lalit Modi said he thinks it's going to be dead in 3 years.
Michael Vaughan
Um I I don't quite agree with that. I mean clearly he's got an axe to grind and and he's driving. I I think where he'll probably be proving correct it might not be 100 ball T20 cricket. So he'll come back and say I told you. Um I think he's he's and I love Lalit because he's I love visionaries. I like people that are willing to uh do something that's just a little bit different, but then realize that you've got to make it work. It was a great line. Yeah, it was. Um I think the Hundred will will turn into a T20 tournament probably by the end of the next TV deal. Um we'll have to wait and see. I I can see in the future two more teams being added to the Hundred as well. Um I can see that's going to be uh coming quite soon just to bring in again a huge amount of revenue to the game. that's probably the next bit of big cash that could come into the ECB. Whether that's the next round or we'll wait a few more years, we'll wait and see. But the one thing that I I hope doesn't happen, um, you know, the IPL started at a time when the the window was, it wasn't, it's never been short, but it was shorter than it is now. And it keep growing and growing and I believe there's going to be two more teams added to the IPL, which will grow the tournament even more. They're on about starting it in March, finishing at the end of May. That's three months of of our calendar to the IPL. The one thing I I hope doesn't happen here is that that that window grows. You know, we we've set on it. It's at the heart of our summer. I'm happy for it to be there, but as long as it stays that window, I don't want it to be another two weeks added and another 3 weeks and by 2033 we've got this Hundred come T20 franchise league uh for two and a half months of our summer. Uh I don't think that'll be right.
James Cooper
Does that become almost a hybrid blast then? Does the whole thing become a
Michael Vaughan
Yeah, I mean look I know it's cricket ball games cricket is a great sport because it it feeds so many uh different personalities a love uh and many love 4-day cricket 5-day cricket uh many love 50 over cricket we don't have too much of that we have it during the Hundred uh and many are new to the game that you know the the aspect of uh the growth in the women's game through the hundred has been massive it's been one of the successes of our game for many many years And um you know we've got to make sure that we're feeding our fans with with with not just one one product and if that's just white ball cricket I think we'll lose a lot of people to the game. So we've got to make sure that we're feeding them with everything and you know I think there's enough time in our calendar. I've always said that I wish county cricket started overseas in March. you know, then we can have a little bit more of a a period of of dare I say a little bit of time in between games for the county games and you give um all county players the chance to play two 4-day games in March away from home and you could go to Zimbabwe, South Africa, uh I'm sure India would host a couple of games, you know, the Caribbean, uh many other Abu Dhabi, Dubai, wherever you want to take but um to give all our players the chance to play overseas in 4-day cricket, I believe would give English cricket uh more of a pool of players is to choose from when you start traveling overseas. So, I would always start counting cricket away from home.
James Cooper
Rob, what do your instincts tell you about the broadcast deal next 2028? I mean, it's 1.1 billion plus your international rights. Um, the Hundred franchise people will want a return on their investment. Are they going to get it through broadcast rights?
Prof Rob Wilson
I think we'll see an increase, might be a marginal increase and not significant. I very much agree what Michael's saying about how the kind of the annual calendar will fit together and how we might see a development of the 100 into a T20 format and then you have competitions across the globe don't you players will be able to move between IPL UK Big Bash and so on and so forth that will become much more broadcastable that's not a word but you know what I mean um and that was that is when the the growth will really start to get driven I think um they are effectively franchises. So there is an opportunity to add franchises at some point. It'd be really interesting to see if some of those smaller counties are able to capture um one of those franchises. That will require outside investment in order to achieve it. Um temporary stands, you know, to make the grounds a little bit bigger so they can host that. And that will then incrementally grow the competition out. I think it's really exciting for English cricket that that this competition format has started. I think it was relatively overvalued if I'm super critical, but the reality is something is worth what someone's prepared to pay for it. So the 520 million is very helpful. Um we haven't mentioned Sussex, we talked about Gloucestershire, we mentioned Glamorgan, you know, those counties are being able to pay down some of their their debt, some of their losses, uh and are able to reset their systems, which is just I think very very good for the game
Michael Vaughan
The one thing I I I that doesn't stick with me with the Hundred is that you know the Southwest don't have a team. So there's a huge amount of cricket that was down there and also up in Durham. You look at the amount of cricketers that have been provided to the England setup through Durham over the last 20 years and they're near the top of the tree because of that program and and the love of sport, never mind just cricket up in the uh the Northeast. So, um, if you were going to add two extra teams to to the Hundred or this new T20 franchise tournament, I'd love to see the Southwestern Durham provided with the team.
James Cooper
but the analysis was really interesting about Sussex because it almost said they had a plan in place, but that was kind of ditched because of COVID and left them in a spot. Is is that accurate or is that my reading?
Prof Rob Wilson
I think there's a level of truth to that. I think COVID caught a lot of people out, didn't they? And if you were ready and you were set up for it, you probably came through. You talk to a lot of league one, League two football clubs and actually it was one of the best things that ever happened to them because they were able to furlow staff. They got some funding in um but then you have losers as well. So absolutely some truth to that and but a massive reset required isn't there so
Iain Nairn
and that's something that we really saw in business as well. There were a lot of bad businesses that stayed afloat through COVID because of furlough because of the government loan schemes that that were there and and there was a massive drop off in failures. It recapitalized a lot of businesses that had never actually had the capital in them to start with and so you got to borrow 50 grand from the government on you on a 10-year loan at 2.5%. It was fantastic for for some businesses and that's sort of you've seen things fly you as came out of COVID I think the same is true of some of the sports clubs as well through that.
James Cooper
I want to talk engagement and digital footprint just quickly before we we finish. You're you're involved with the bar play scheme getting kids playing.
Michael Vaughan
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
James Cooper
is is that that is the only way to go about it, isn't it? in terms of catching it before audience and the next generation of
Michael Vaughan
it's just making sure everyone's got an opportunity and um you know we we we saw a hole in the market uh a couple of years ago where you know there's been many schools tournaments with the the finals day at Lords but fundamentally the independent schools are where all the power is you know that's where all the you know the kids kind of go when they're trying to be a cricketer they get the best coaching a lot of bursaries handed out to uh very promising young players which is great at the independent the sector have done great for the England cricket team. But um to think that there wasn't a state school um tournament dedicated with the finals day at Lords, it hit I went to a state school in Sheffield. It kind of hit home to me. I oh that that shouldn't be uh not be able to happen. So Lords were great. They put on the the the tournament. We managed to get some money. We've had a great fundraiser last year which future proves it for four more years. Barclay's came involved involved and we're a bit sceptical the first year how many teams we get. We were bit worried about the girls teams thing or are the girls playing in the state sector. Well, we got over 400 teams in year one in in the girls sector which is amazing. We had over 1100 uh teams across both um and finals days have happened. I went to the finals day at Cheshire uh last week. I'll be amazed if Altringham Grammar School boys don't win it. I've seen the team now. They're in proper team. So, I'll be amazed if I don't see them at Lords on September the 10th. And there's final days at Headingly for the North. There's final days down south. um the likes of Wormsley and I think Worcester have given us Sussex have given us the ground as well. So September the 10th will be the first dedicated state school finals day at Lords which is great for the game.
James Cooper
But the success of the England women's team's kind of doing it work for you in terms of evangelism isn't it?
Michael Vaughan
Yeah. Yeah. We need them to win the World Cup. You know I think the game needs um yeah I think English cricket needs a success story at the minute. need a feel good factor. And if the the women can beat South Africa in a a semi-final, if they can beat an Australian side that is world class, you could argue that the Australian women team is the best sporting team in the world over the course of the last 10 years. They've pretty much won everything. So, you'd have to do some to beat them. But yeah, it's a success story. And then on the back of that, if we go into the Hundred, we know the success of uh the women's Hundred, it'll be massive for the game. So, yeah, it's it's a good story.
James Cooper
Rob, I want to round off with one of the kind of groundbreaking things you've done the research in terms of digital footprint and almost suggesting that players could give some of their social media earnings to the counties that have brought them through. I had a row with my wife last night who's a lawyer who said you can't do that. The players won't go for that. But I mean, it's it's it's a solution or a stream, isn't it?
Prof Rob Wilson
Yeah. Look, the players and the lawyers won't agree to that. Um, but the point of that whole digital footprint thing is you have individual players. I mentioned Surreys digital footprint being bigger than the uh collection of the of the bottom of that league if you like the bottom five clubs. So the sum total of Surreys uh digital footprint is bigger than the collective of the bottom five. But you have individual players that have got bigger followings. I dare say Michael's got bigger following than most of the first class cricket counties on in their own right. So I think the challenge to cricket is how do you leverage the profile of those players to benefit the game and to benefit your your county. Um obviously those stories need to be positive. Um but there is a huge opportunity there uh to really lean into that fascination that the the younger public the sort of 16 to 24s have with shorter form content on um you know some of their social media platforms. the way you put together reels, how you might get an individual player to activate another brand, how that brand might work with the county, you know, front shirt sponsor that might want to use your, you know, your biggest brand and your biggest brand might well be one of your players.
James Cooper
Would you go along with that or would you be if it was written into a contract that some of your social media earnings went to back to the county that put you through or is that are we on dangerous ground there?
Michael Vaughan
Yeah, I think it's dangerous uh territory because you agree with my wife. she thought it was. No, every individual case would be different. So, you get players that say yes, you get players that say no. So, um I do think there's a huge opportunity in the digital uh space. I I've seen it myself recently. It's it's where people are consuming pretty much everything. You know, I dare say who watches television anymore. I mean, it it's just turned a full circle. Um I've always said this, I'd love English cricket to do a drive to survive documentary across the whole game. I I just think cricket is is such a a great sport for storytelling. You know, there's so much goes on in our game, whether it's, you know, a Saturday afternoon game, you know, the tea still being made by the same person that's been making them probably for 60 years. There's great stories across our our grassroots game. There's great stories across the schools. There's great stories going through the county system, the the minor county system, disability cricket, women's cricket. There'll be stories and characters that are out there that we should put on telly or digital, should I say, and get it out there because Drive to Survive, I've never been a Formula 1 fan until I I suddenly started watching Drive to Survive and now I I I catch up on every Grand Prix because of what I saw on the television. I think we could engage a whole new audience if cricket was documented on in a kind of similar show.
Prof Rob Wilson
And that's it. That's where it's going. So, you know, we've just seen Netflix, haven't we, acquire effectively podcasts that have got celebrities driving podcasts. I checked it yesterday and it was fourth on the top 10 most watched series on Netflix. Drive to Survive. You've got docu series on Amazon Prime. Um, Manchester United have just signed a big deal, haven't they, to get a behind the closed behind closed doors access. Cricket has got so many stories across all those forms.
Michael Vaughan
We we we seem to be um maybe see England team that need to start it, you know, and need to open up what what they're about. Maybe it's probably the right time. We're all criticizing them. So, let us into
James Cooper
give a right of reply.
Michael Vaughan
Let us in and show us what show. Yeah. Because I think it'd be good for uh for them and I think it'd be good for for the game generally. I think uh the whole aspect of trying to get and engage a new audience and I think that could be one way of doing it.
James Cooper
I wasn't sure what we were going to get from you this morning, whether it was going to be just common sense and and and pessimistic. You look you look optimistic about cricket and it looks
Michael Vaughan
I love cricket.
James Cooper
No, I know you love it.
Michael Vaughan
I love it. Uh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean I've been involved in cricket since 91 and these conversations that we're having now have been happening since ' 91. So cricket will survive. You know, we're going to be fine. But, you know, we we with you know, all sports, you're looking at football and and all the football because from Premier League right down to non-league, they're all having the same conversations. Everyone's trying to find a model and a sustainable business to make sure that in 20, 30, 40 years time. Uh whether it's us here, I doubt it, but you know, cricket will be okay. Um but I think there's enough good people around the game now that uh are realizing what what's possible. And that's that's that's the exciting part for me in cricket that you know we've got a great game you know we've got so many different kind of legs to our game that we should all enjoy and you know I think we've got a a product that over the time and I do think this T20 model it's not my favorite format test match cricket 4-day cricket is my favorite but I do think T20 has provided us with a great opportunity to make sure that cricket is really looked after in the future.
James Cooper
Michael thanks for coming in. Thanks for your time and honesty. Iain lovely to see you Rob. Thanks to the facts and figures. And that's it for another episode of the Sport, Structured podcast with Leonard Curtis. Hopefully, you've seen we do things a little bit differently. Yes, there's informed conversation and debate, but it's backed up by cutting edge research and data, plus recommendations aimed at growing longerlasting and more sustainable sport for years to come.
Disclaimer: The content of this podcast is intended as commentary and opinion on matters of public interest in the sports industry. While we make every effort to ensure accuracy, figures, statistics and financial data referenced may be based on publicly available estimates and could be subject to error or change. Nothing in this podcast should be taken as a statement of fact. If you believe any information is inaccurate, please contact us at rob.venables@leonardcurtis.co.uk and we will endeavour to correct the record promptly.
